4th Gen Apple TV Discussion
So we're a month away from the anticipated annual WWDC. Lots of indicators are pointing to a new Apple TV announcement. Rumours currently suggest new-style remote and App Store as well as increased on-device storage. Of course we can expect improved specs as well.
Personally I hope they have a new design, something akin to Google's Chromecast or other HDMI sticks, and MFi controller support. Would be awesome to be able to download current MFi supported games onto the Apple TV and play on the big screen, saving on phone battery and potential AirPlay lag.
What are some of your dream features or design choices?
I think the idea of the Apple TV is not having to rely on hardware refreshes. TVs are one piece of tech people don't tend to upgrade very often, and I would imagine that is the ultimate goal of Apple TV. That is to say, making a device you can leave connected to your TV and forget about for a decade or two.
While I would love to see updated specs, more storage, an app store, and MFi support, I will ultimately be dissapointed if Apple takes this 'me too' approach.
For me, the killer feature would be WiFi Direct, or some way of producing lagless streams from our mobile devices and computers that we do upgrade on a regular basis.
Lift the Camel wrote:
For me, the killer feature would be WiFi Direct, or some way of producing lagless streams from our mobile devices and computers that we do upgrade on a regular basis.
The latest Apple TV does actually allow a direct p2p wifi connection, and it IS way better than the previous versions of AirPlay.
I'd say it's indistinguishable from the Lightning-based video solutions, which are capped at USB 2.0 bandwidth.
Kevin wrote:
The latest Apple TV does actually allow a direct p2p wifi connection, and it IS way better than the previous versions of AirPlay.
I'd say it's indistinguishable from the Lightning-based video solutions, which are capped at USB 2.0 bandwidth.
Nice! I didn't realize it was that good. I have an Apple TV 2 and the lag is way too bad to play games with. If there is a refresh this year, I'll definitely consider updating.
Would love to play some Bioshock on the big screen again ?
Things have gotten WAY better since the Apple TV 2. If a new model isn't released at WWDC, I'd be tempted to tell you to buy the latest one at the current price - it's actually not bad!
A lot depends on your iOS device, too. The A8-powered devices have 1/3 to 1/2 less AirPlay latency than the A7 devices, which are significantly better than everything before.
- AppleTV app store with games (which would actually be pretty trivial for game devs if they have full MFi Extended support).
- A7, A8X, or A8X CPU.
I put together my predictions for the updated Apple TV:
The Obligatory WWDC 2015 Predictions Post
The way I see it, there are two possibilities for how Apple might update the Apple TV:
The Upgraded AirPlay Box
First, the less-interesting "upgraded AirPlay box" option. Either due to philosophical reasons, a desire not to stretch themselves too thin with the Watch app SDK coming soon, or content deals that aren't ready yet, Apple might want to release an interim Apple TV with a minor spec bump and no App Store.
In this case, I'd expect to see the existing product upgraded with an A7, A8, or new A9 processor, minimal integrated storage, and 802.11ac WiFi. Basically, exactly what we have today, but with better specs.
There have been rumblings of a new remote, possibly with a bluetooth connection or a touchscreen or trackpad. This type of thing wouldn't require a significant Apple TV hardware upgrade, but might still be enough of a headline feature to push people to the higher-end model.
This type of update could still be significant for gaming, I don't want to sell it short. Upgrading the WiFi and graphics hardware and drivers could enable an Apple TV capable of streaming h265 HEVC video at faster bitrates and higher quality than even the Lightning-to-HDMI cable is capable of. It wouldn't quite be the same as native code, but it could be significantly better than the current AirPlay implementation.
Even if Apple does update the Apple TV to play games natively, AirPlay might still wind up being significant - you upgrade your phone more often than you upgrade your TV box.
The Full Apple TV Game Console
A minor spec bump to the Apple TV would always be welcome, but the thing us gamers are hoping for is more significant than that. We're hoping of a high-end game console style box, outfitted with the latest and greatest hardware, fully compatible with MFi controllers, and featuring a full SDK and App Store. I'm not sure whether or not this is the time for such a box, but I think there's a better chance now than ever before.
If it happens, expect to see less conservative parts than the current Apple TV has. I'd be shocked if it shipped with anything less than an A8X chip - battery life isn't a concern, and the iPad Air 2 already proves this chip is a powerhouse at greater-than-HD resolutions.
On the wireless front, I'd still expect this box to include 802.11ac and upgraded AirPlay. Even with a native App Store. Apple wouldn't want to ignore AirPlay, which is still a critical feature.
MFi controllers (and MFi controller forwarding) are absolutely guaranteed for a game-playing Apple TV. The only mystery to me is whether Apple makes their own game controller, and if so, whether it comes with the Apple TV. I tend to think no to both; that Apple would rather let third parties handle this, and that even if Apple did make their own, they'd rather charge extra for it.
Lastly, an integrated App Store suggests greater storage requirements. The 8 gigs in the current Apple TV aren't going to cut it. This is where Apple could expand the Apple TV product line even further. Perhaps they offer a $149 Apple TV with 32 gigabytes of storage and no controller, while also offering a $249 Apple TV with 128 gigabytes and an included gamepad. The only thing I'd rule out is a traditional-style hard drive - it might work for the PlayStations and Xboxes, but Apple will never use a spinning disk with iOS.
MFi4GamerZ ATV 4th Gen Prediction Original Article
A new rev of Apple TV is on the brink of being a reality,
Here is our prediction of hardware & what impact it will have on MFi Gaming.
Surely the time is NOW, eh Kev ?
June 8th-12th 2015 sees Apple WWDC Conference to be held at the Moscone West Center San Francisco, where the long & eagerly awaited 4th Gen Apple TV is rumored to launch.
Here is Apple's invite below: Notice the Black shadow central part has the exact shape and dimensions of an Apple TV.
Also on a personal note: i attended last Nov MFi Summit & the wording Apple where using then was ATV will be the "Epicenter" or "Central Hub" for HomeKit connectivity, so to see this wording now convinces me a 4th Gen ATV will be announced. 
MFiGamerz Predicted 4th Gen ATV Specs:
Processor : Dual Core A7 (iPhone 5s)
Wifi : Dual Band 802.11ac(Airport Extreme example)
Bluetooth : 4.0
Video Hardware: PowerVR G6430 with HEVC/H.265 Decoder(specifications)
Memory : 16GB (could be more but i expect this to be the minimum)
The 2 specs in green point to the ability to produce a Perfect AirPlay environment, which means "Zero Lag" 1080p video mirroring/streaming from a current gen iPhones/iPads, coupled with an MFi Game controller opens the door for AppleTV being a Bigscreen TV gaming Hub.
This "Zero Lag" feature will be available for the current product range, (iPhone6,6+,iPad Air 2 etc). as all these devices already contain the hardware in the 2 specs in green above.
Why A7 not A8(x)?
Tricky Decision, iPhone6,6+, iPad Air2 have the A8(x) & and are capable of delivering the "Perfect Airplay" gaming experience, but as of now are unable to take advantage of the faster wifi & better video compression hardware, mainly because they have nothing to stream it to..Current (3rd Gen) ATV uses H.264 & Wifi 802.11n.(= slower/lag)
Using an A7 Chip gives us the backwards compatibility & console style gaming directly on the ATV device instead of using Airplay, which supports the iPhone 5s and lower devices and also fixes the slower Airplay issues from these devices,just play direct on your ATV instead. it's 64 bit architecture also has the ability to utilize METAL a console grade graphics APi.
.
MFi Game Controllers
Bluetooth does allow us to directly connect MFi Game Controllers the the ATV which will allow us to play iPhone5s Games & lower.
The best solution would be the MFi Conroller connected to the current gen iPhone/iPad's which are mirroring it's video to the Apple TV using the 2 specs in green above, this solution also allows for the Formfitting MFi Controller to be more useful for Gaming where players can make use of Controller Forwarding to the ATV, so i expect to see iPhone6/6+ Formfitting controllers to be announced soon! 😉
GAMEVICE is one such MFi Controller on the horizon & Afterpad do a great review of this upcoming controller check it out here
Either way Apple have everything covered by using an A7 over an A8, i feel an A8 would be overkill (in a nice way,let's hope.)
Support for HomeKit:
Apple TV will be "EpiCenter" or Control Hub for every HomeKit device that's connected within your home, they can be accessed via the New Apple TV Remote or remotely from any iPhone/Pad/Apple Watch/Macbook connected to the internet on the same iCloud Account.
New Remote:
Bluetooth connectivity instead of IR.
Force Touch using the same technology found on the new macbooks touchpad, this technology gives you a smooth button free surface and a gentle vibration to notify you of a confirmed action, it also allows variable pressure for controlling the speed of FFWD,RWD movie playback.(<-- This is a rumor but would be nice)
Microphone: Used for content searches via Siri & HomeKit voice control directly from your remote.
This concludes our prediction, leave comments or questions below
Last edited by MFiGamer (Jun 01 7:01 PM)
Ahh yes, forgot to mention the Homekit part - it will absolutely be a critical part of whatever the new Apple TV OS is.
I doubt it'll require new hardware, though. I'd be shocked if the current Apple TV didn't work as a HomeKit hub.
Carter (Toucharcade) reporting New AppleTV will not make an appearance at the WWDC2015 on Monday. See here
Although he is quoting from the original article,seen a few of these rumors to the build up., let's hope they are wrong.
Last edited by MFiGamer (Jun 03 6:55 PM)
MFiGamer wrote:
Carter (Toucharcade) reporting Apple TV will not make an appearance at the WWDC2015 on Monday. See here
Although he is quoting the original article,seen a few of these rumours to the build up., let's hope they are wrong.
Yeah, he's reiterating a NYT article, which makes it more interesting. Apple has a tendency to leak things to the NYT on purpose, to set expectations or quash rumors.
It could be Apple simply putting the fire out now, so people aren't disappointed. It could also, however, be them misdirecting people on purpose.
Remember before the iPad came out, when every paper cited "unnamed sources" that it would cost $999? Then Apple got to show it at $499, and suddenly it was "reasonably priced".
The last keynote when Tim Cook started with the "lets talk Apple TV " I was on the edge of my seat only to be crushed by disappointment please don't let this happen again Apple. Really really want a App Store full of games for my Apple TV. Time will tell as they say.
I think the rumours of a new Apple TV are total rubbish.
1. Apple just cut the price of the Apple TV 3 and did so on-stage. This doesn't say, hey we're clearing out old inventory, it says, here this is the device you will need in the future and now it's even cheaper, we want everyone to have this one. Apple does not cut prices before a refresh, especially not on stage.
2. More in that vain, they just announced more details on HomeKit (actually they confirmed Apple TV would be a hub months ago). This is uncharacteristic of Apple if they are also planning big Apple TV plans for WWDC. They are not keeping it close to the chest as they usually do with key announcements, so that should tell us there isn't a key announcement coming up.
3. Apple TV inventory is still in stock. Usually, and especially given the theory that Apple cut the Apple TV 3 price to clear the warehouse, items will not be in stock before a refresh. It's Apple predictions 101, when you see the ship dates slip, you start guessing about a refresh.
4. The Apple TV 3 can already do 90% of what people want the Apple TV 4 to do. It's already got direct WiFi, and enough specs for native apps or live TV streaming, or Siri with microphones on nearby iPhones/Watches, etc. The only thing it can't do that people want is 4K.
5. Upgraded remote? Not unless you mean upgraded Remote app. If anything, they'll stop shipping Apple TV's with physical remotes at some point.
So there you go. A new Apple TV doesn't make sense to me. But here's some other wild predictions:
1. TVPlay - Think of CarPlay, software that can put iOS into cars. In a way, it's Apple licensing out it's software for other hardware makers, which is obviously a bit different for Apple. TVPlay licenses out the Apple TV software to run on TV's by other manufacturers, like Sony. Sony has had a partnership with Google to put the (now defunct?) Google TV on it's TV's and set top boxes. But the results haven't been great, and Sony is losing billions on Android in it's mobile division. Anyway, the same Apple TV experience on other devices would boost iTunes and save Apple having to make a TV themselves, plus with the possibility for HDMI inputs that could put a real live TV app on your Apple TV without any need for deals with broadcasters.
This might sound crazy, but all Apple's main competitors are getting into this sector in some way. I don't just mean in TV's, but in creating operating systems for devices. Microsoft and Google just announced embedded OS's for IOT devices and Samsung has a special chipset and perhaps Tizen. One front in this battle will be HomeKit, but getting Apple software on non-mobile, non-PC devices, e.g. CarPlay, should also be important.
2. TVKit - Opening up Apple TV to a broader range of apps. Probably still paired with iOS apps, and probably limited in the way the Watch is. But perhaps dashboards/widgets.
3. Notifications - OK no one really wants to see notifications overlaid on their movies, but it's a possibility in the menus, etc.
Hi Noah, welcome to the forums!
I don't agree with you, but I think you did a good job of laying out the arguement against a new Apple TV in the near future.
For points 1-4, you'd be right if Apple were discontinuing the current model - I never said they were. I'd be shocked if they did, for all of those reasons and more. The current Apple TV isn't going anywhere - it stays at $69 as an excellent, reasonably priced device. A newer model would be released alongside it.
For point 5, I think the rumors of touch-screen remotes are a bit ridiculous, but I don't think they stop shipping remotes either. A lightly upgraded remote with Bluetooth is my prediction. A touchpad is possible, but I don't see the need.
TVPlay, or an Apple TV liscence deal, would be amazing. Before CarPlay, I'd say there was no chance. But Apple has shown a willingness to integrate now... I'm not so sure.
TVKit basically already exists. Apps can have special Apple TV modes already - a few games do. Basically zero developers take advantage of it, so I don't see Apple pushing it much harder.
By TVKit, I just mean more functionality for third party devs. Maybe the ability to launch a game from the Apple TV and have it stream from aa iPhone that's charging elsewhere. Devs would need to update their apps for that, at least to make sure controller-only input will work (no touch screen controls will work).
Or third-party, app-dependant widgets. And eventually native apps.
I could also see something like a Home Center app that lets you dim lights and make adjustments from the TV.
But these are all software things.
The most hardware I'd expect to see at WWDC the announcement of a USB-C to Lightning cable 😊
But here's some hardware speculation anyway: an Apple TV and AirPort Time Capsule hybrid. A real "epicentre", serving you WiFi, backups and iTunes + Netflix content. And now, of course working as a relay for HomeKit stuff. Actually, there was some stock problems with AirPort products on Amazon recently.
There's two other features the Time Capsule should have, I think. iCloud remote backups and an iTunes server. The latter because fewer and fewer people have always-running desktop computers that can serve an iTunes Library. And when they do, they often stream it from their Time Capsule network storage, because the space on our devices is so limited. The iCloud backups of the Time Capsule are a no-brainer. Good security practice is to have 2 local back ups and at least 1 remote one.