Developers can't require gamepad
As it turns out, Apple changed their minds and developers can't develop games with only gamepads in mind ( https://developer.apple.com/library/pre … 1-CH18-SW1 ). Anyone got any idea how a bigger game would be even possible to control via remote?
Simple answer.. VERY BADLY..
Touchscreen games cannot be magically made to support different interfaces and expect be a good experience, (we've already tried that & failed.)
Something Apple need to learn.
- Different games require different control mechanisms.
- Controller gaming is the foundation of all video games.
- Leading Game franchises are Controller enabled Games.
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So this was to be expected..supporting an MFi Controller takes a backseat again, it is secondary on iPhone/iPad etc also.
Good news all those 750+ MFi games already support touchscreen so the transition to the remote's touchpad is simple, as basically it uses the touchscreen framework.
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It does however as you point out restrict developers to go "all out" in supporting a game that was originally designed for a Gamepad controller.
It also hinders their transition of their existing larger game franchises found on XBox,PS3/4 etc, as they still need time/money to develop a touchscreen interface.
This is where Apple show their inexperience & lack of leadership within the Games industry, sneaking in pretending to be Nintendo will not cut it with hardcore gamers or leading developers.
To me poking a piece of glass & waving your arms around are ok for casual gamers, but it's not what leads the industry and entices hardcore gamers to push developers for better experiences.
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Don't me wrong i believe AppleTV will be a huge success, (you know like "Wii").. I challenge anyone to find an AppleTV review without the word "Wii" in it, and this is exactly what Apple are banking on.
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As games get released we will be picking out those game gems that support MFi Controllers, and give them the limelight over pokey swipey stream of sh** that's inevitably expected for AppleTV.
Sorry for the Rant..I could of answered with a single Gif. 😉
TEAM APPLETV
Let me revise that, it maybe a little more complicated than previous reply on getting the touchscreen input to work.
I've been sifting through the Framework documentation (don't worry its all publicly available), here is what i uncovered if Apple are allowed to enforce rule 1 of the guideline document.
Apple Documentation Guidelines wrote:
1: Your game must support the Apple TV remote. Your game may not require the use of a controller.
2: tvOS games that support controllers must support the extended control layout. All controllers for tvOS are nonformfitting extended controllers.
3: Games must be playable using standalone controllers. If you support an extended controller, the game must be playable solely with that controller.
4: You must support the pause button. All controllers include a pause button. When gameplay is active, pressing the pause button should pause gameplay. When the game is not being played, such as when you are at a menu screen, the pause button moves to a previous screen of content
Here is how the frameworks map together.
Basically enforcing the "must support the Remote" quote means the 7 inputs (in red) of the MFi Game Controller cannot be used in your game.
Dilema: AppleTV does support MFi Controllers (all the inputs) but the documentation is basically saying you can't use them fully, because if you do there are no input's supported on the Remote to reflect your MFi Controller actions.
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I think Apple need to back down on this requirement or amend it so it is more clear.
Yeah, this is going to lead to a lot of frustrated developers and gamers. Apple has repeatedly shown it has no clue what to do about games. Take the MFi controller spec, for instance. Right out the gate it is missing 3 buttons that game developers for consoles/computers take for granted. I have read of several games not being ported/updated for MFi controllers due to that simple reason. Now Apple wants to break that down even further? I don't get it.
For me, there is a deeper problem: games created for remote likely won't be designed for longer periods of gaming. So, no Final Fantasy for example.
Read your post kevin about blocking games that require gamepads, good read but I disagree, the wii and wii u did this, wii u failed because no third party support we will leave this out, but the original wii had games that used wii remote, some gamepads and some both. The wii was a huge success, everyone that owned a wii and wanted better control got a gamepad, Nintendo didn't see any push back over this. I think it should be up to programmer not Apple if it should require a mfi controller or not, if a programmer knows he will limit the fan base because required mfi but decided to anyway I think it should be there option. For me I was really excited for Apple TV and games but in its current stage I won't buy one, controlling a game with that remote would be terrible. I think they are missing a HUGE fan base with their choice.
Last edited by Amacon18 (Sep 18 4:26 PM)
No worries, I assumed a lot of people would disagree 😜
Did the Wii have a ton of games that required a gamepad? To my knowledge, the heavy hitters all worked with the Wiimote in that awkward sideways arrangement, or with the Nunchuck at the most.
Some of the Wii's best games made use of its unique control scheme - no doubt something Apple is trying to achieve as well, which I should have also mentioned in that post.
Apple is well aware the current decision will limit the device's appeal to hardcore gamers. The problem is, I think it was already limited beyond the point of no return. What they gain in going for mass-market appeal overcompensates for what they lose in hardcore gamers.
I do know this was a controversial decision within Apple, though. Certainly not an easy solution. But personally, I think they made the right one at this time. Maybe change it in a year or 2.
Hey Kev, actually totally agree with your report, raises some good points there, you know i like to be a bit more edgy & try to uncover what is not being shown to us though.
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I feel Apple are definitely not helping game devs here, they are infact creating more work for them, they are asking them to "invest in Apple Gaming" not "Gaming" surely a game developer knows what makes his/her game great. not Apple?
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The fact is "Game developers" make "Games" regardless of platform.
If that game can be cross platform to reach a larger audience then more revenue can be earned from 1 skew say from Xbox/Ps4/Android/Steam etc.. you know what all the major developers are doing now it's how they make their money & survive.
They are infact unifying the gaming experience fro that game, not fragmenting it.
Making the new control method (the remote) a "requirement" is "Fragmentation" for Game developers & forcing them down a path that i feel many will not follow.
The method of allowing the developer to decide his/her control method is the best choice for "The Game" & is in my opinion the only ethically moral choice Apple should make.
SOLUTION:
Apple need to get their sh** together "Buy out" a company that "makes game controllers" companies like Steelseries or MOGA.
If only the ATV shipped with an official MFi Controller then all this nonsense could be avoided.
Im are one of the lucky owner of a Apple TV and have my own sight on this issue. Im have still not setup it 100% and yet to testing my 3 games im plans to port (Greedy Mouse, Karma Miwa and CatchOut). Im do wont do any impressions here, since its under NDA.
Karma Miwa is a platform game, where im used 3 jump buttons, mapped to A (Jump),B (Jump Right) and X (Jump Left).
Here im will testing a idea to map all buttons to only use the trackpad A button, and simply detect where you have pressed down the button. This due the Trackpad button is behind the whole Trackpad, which im will uses to the advance here. Its not a center button like Android TV.
If that method works, then its would been possible to map the face 4 buttons on that way, which can been used to minor actions (on devices that dosent support Siri).
Also none of my games will suffer from this requirement at all. One of the game even works nicely with Android TV standard remote.
Last edited by spacefractal (Sep 19 7:11 AM)
Good to hear you have your 3 games ported,
For these kind of games Apple have done a good job in making it simple enough for indie devs to implement with their new GCMicroGamepad/GCMotion profiles.
Nice to hear about the trackpad being able to detect presses dependent on thumb position to give a different button inputs.
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Im just got one of my game running on it, but in currectly unplayable state (as excepted).
But yes detecting presses dependent on thumb position can open up for more possibles (but you do need to check the compo of A and trackpad of course). Im will try to do that in Karma Miwa.
So you can emulate most of the extended controls, but you can also do a easy gameplay with remote and a harder gameplay with gamepad and such.
But remember this device is under NDA, so im cant do any impressions other than that.
MFiGamer wrote:
I feel Apple are definitely not helping game devs here, they are infact creating more work for them, they are asking them to "invest in Apple Gaming" not "Gaming" surely a game developer knows what makes his/her game great. not Apple?
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The fact is "Game developers" make "Games" regardless of platform.
If that game can be cross platform to reach a larger audience then more revenue can be earned from 1 skew say from Xbox/Ps4/Android/Steam etc.. you know what all the major developers are doing now it's how they make their money & survive.
They are infact unifying the gaming experience fro that game, not fragmenting it.Making the new control method (the remote) a "requirement" is "Fragmentation" for Game developers & forcing them down a path that i feel many will not follow.
The method of allowing the developer to decide his/her control method is the best choice for "The Game" & is in my opinion the only ethically moral choice Apple should make.
The thing is, I doubt those developers were coming to the Apple TV anyways. The Apple TV user base is likely to remain very small for the next several years. The percentage of that user base who are gamers is even smaller. The percentage of that user base who will buy MFi controllers is smaller still.
The target market for iOS gamers is far larger than the target market for Apple TV gamers. Any developer already refactoring their codebase to work on Apple's platform would choose to target iOS before Apple TV. And targeting iOS means they'd already need to rethink their input methods. Which would make supporting the Apple TV Remote much easier.
MFiGamer wrote:
If only the ATV shipped with an official MFi Controller then all this nonsense could be avoided.
That certainly would have helped. If the $200 model came with a Nimbus, Apple could legitimately claim to be selling a model specifically for gamers. At that point, allowing developers to require MFi controllers would have been perfectly sensible.
Maybe next year...
Actuelly the main issue im thinks, is not about the remote requirements, but a device with no local storage. That will cause some issues with some apps.
Last edited by spacefractal (Sep 25 5:02 PM)
I'm not really that worried about the requirement for Remote Control Support or a 200mb initial file size limit or a lack of local storage beyond 32gb or 64gb, or all of these other concerns that people seem to have about the Apple TV, simply because I know that Disney has announced that the full version of Disney Infinity 3.0 (Star Wars) will be coming to the Apple TV.
If they can make that game with its large file size and Mfi controller work, then I don't see how most of our other favorite games from the App Store won't be able to work well as dedicated apps on the Apple TV.
jase wrote:
I'm not really that worried about the requirement for Remote Control Support or a 200mb initial file size limit or a lack of local storage beyond 32gb or 64gb, or all of these other concerns that people seem to have about the Apple TV, simply because I know that Disney has announced that the full version of Disney Infinity 3.0 (Star Wars) will be coming to the Apple TV.
If they can make that game with its large file size and Mfi controller work, then I don't see how most of our other favorite games from the App Store won't be able to work well as dedicated apps on the Apple TV.
Disney Infinity comes with it's own game controller.
Call it what you will, but effectively it's a loophole in Apples masterplan for not fully supporting official MFi controllers.
So now as a game developer you need to "make your own hardware" if you want to fully support your game on AppleTV ?